Podcast 228: RHOC: is a pause coming? New face on RHOSLC (not just Meredith’s); Should Hailey have said that?

Halloween costume confessions, Beyoncé's real age, and a podcast exclusive: Katie Ginella posted a cryptic "karma" reel, so we took it to our OC source to find out if a Real Housewives of Orange County pause is coming. Plus West Wilson's new Netflix show, Kenny and Whitney's In the City engagement, Hailey Glassman's RHONY marriage comments, Daisy's Raya confession, and RHOSLC newcomer Ashley Quai.

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Katie is catching heat for gloating, but why didn't anyone blink when Janet Caperna did the same about Danny Booko and Nia Sanchez leaving The Valley? West Wilson has been spotted with Amanda Batula, and we're keeping an eye on Kenny, who might be showing shades of bridezilla (ask him about the pink flowers). On RHONY, the new women are coming out swinging at their own marriages, and the Jessel versus Erin showdown sounded extremely rehearsed. In Salt Lake, Whitney Rose and Justin are still living in the same house, Bronwyn Newport's model boyfriend Brandon has everyone talking, and we have two exclusive emails: one about an OG whose new "boyfriend" is reportedly on her payroll, and one about a blonde OG who is furious that Bronwyn got Traitors over her. And on Next Gen NYC: does Charlie have B under his spell?

Mentioned in This Episode

Katie Ginella, Emily Simpson, Carmela, Janet Caperna, Danny Booko and Nia Sanchez, West Wilson, Amanda Batula, Kenny Martin and Whitney Fransway, Hailey Glassman, Daisy Toye, Jessel Taank, Erin Lichy and Sai De Silva, Ashley Quai, Whitney Rose, Meredith Marks, Lisa Barlow, Bronwyn Newport, Heather Gay, Mary Cosby, Charlie, Ariana Biermann, Georgia McCann, Brooks Marks.

Frequently Asked Questions

Transcript

Welcome to Cocktails and Gossip, the podcast where we drink cocktails, but you better believe we're gonna spill the tea. We chat reality TV, celebrity blinds, and the hottest tea from BravoAndCocktails.com. And as always, it's all alleged and just for fun. We do not verify our blinds. I'm B. And I'm Amanda. Let's get into this week's tea.

Fall Is Here: Halloween Costumes, Trick-or-Treating and Beyoncé's Real Age

What's up, Cocktailers? Hello, Amanda.

Hi, B. Hi, Cocktailers. How are you doing, B? What's going on?

I'm doing good. It is fall overnight. I came home and I'm like, "Is our air conditioning on?" Because it shouldn't be. It's cold.

That same feeling where I am, too, wearing a sweatshirt outside even, 'cause we like to sit out on our back porch a lot. I would like it to stay here. I think whenever, at whatever point in my life I move, I want somewhere where there's seasons. You guys don't know how much I've learned just in the time that we've had this podcast, because you guys tell me all the things. But not seasons where it gets freezing. Give me 63 degrees.

Love it. I agree.

Give me a hoodie. And sun.

Yeah. I love a change of seasons. I love going to places like Florida and California that don't really have it, and I love the idea of being able to just have at least a little garden year round. But there's just something that is really comforting to me about knowing fall is here, and you posted something the other day that said, "Knowing that this is what we have to look forward to for the rest of the year," which is Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas. That's how I feel too.

I know, but I feel like my Halloween... First of all, Halloween's on a Saturday. And I don't know that my daughter's trick-or-treating with me.

I was just talking about this with somebody, because my daughter always wants me to be the one, when we're divorced parents. And my son, he's like, "Mom, she doesn't want you to go. She really doesn't." And so then I make a point of asking her in front of him. I was like, "Do you want me to come trick-or-treating with you this year?" And she's like, "Yes, absolutely." And I just look at my son, I'm like, "See? She still likes to hang out with me." But then she did say, "I'm sure we'll go to a party or something, and then if you wanna hang back... but you don't have to be right next to me the whole time." I'm like, "Okay. This is healthy, but this might be my last year."

I feel like maybe we'll start together. My daughter said very similar. Our girls are the same. Our boys and our girls are close in age. She was like, "Yeah, but then I'm doing this and this." I'm like, "Wait, it's on a Saturday, so we can have people over." She's like, "Adults? No." I was like, "Like cousins," and she's like, "No, I will be with my friends."

I literally was talking about this exact topic earlier today. Halloween became my favorite holiday after having kids, just getting to see it through their eyes. It's the coolest thing. The community opens up. They encourage people to come and ring their doorbells. It makes me a little bit sad to know that we're at the end of that. But I'm excited for this year, because it's gonna be on a Saturday, and there will be so much to do. I'm psyched.

Yes. Halloween also became my favorite. I guess I cared about Halloween when I was a kid, and then when I did the slutty phase, but then I didn't care, and then with kids I loved it.

I never did the slutty phase.

What? You never did the slutty Halloween phase?

No. I need to do it, though. Maybe I'll start next year.

How did you dress in college?

Did we even dress up for Halloween in college? I'm trying to think. The closest I got is I dressed as Paris Hilton one year in my 20s, but I wouldn't say it was an especially slutty outfit.

Oh, I went full slut. Me and my friends, we did these firefighter costumes. It must've been 22 or 23. I wouldn't wear that in the bedroom now. It was ridiculous. And there were like eight of us. You know what? I'm glad we did it though, 'cause we looked damn good back then.

Yeah. And that's the thing. I think it was mostly because I just didn't feel great about myself. And now I look back and I'm like, "I looked great. Why was I so hard on myself?"

Yes, you should not have been. But we all were, and now we all look back.

Maybe we'll start a new trend where we bring back the slutty Halloween costumes now that our kids don't wanna trick-or-treat with us anymore.

I want DMs that say, "I never stopped the slutty trend." 'Cause I feel like there are people who keep it strong.

I was always so pro for other people, just not myself. And I really wanna see that firefighter costume.

Oh, God, I have to find it. The only word is obscene.

Although I guess, this would've been in my 20s as well, the year that Beyoncé did All the Single Ladies, my girlfriends and I all dressed with the leotard and the tights and the high heels.

We've discussed the fact that Beyoncé lies about her age, right?

Oh, have we?

No. Okay. So I got something to tell you guys. When I was 17, Beyoncé was 20, and I remember this because I'm a December baby, and I started college at 17. I just remember I'm in my dorm, and I just knew Beyoncé was three years older than me. You know when there's a celebrity that's close in age? Like Britney Spears is exactly my age within three days. Christina Aguilera's a year older than me. Beyoncé was three years older than me. All of a sudden, Beyoncé's my age. And every year on her birthday I would post to my Facebook, which has 300 of my friends, "Beyoncé's a liar." And all of my friends who were in college with me, shout out to my roommate, would say, "You're 100% right. Beyoncé's three years older than us." Let the record show, if I'm 44, 45, 46, Beyoncé's 47. I just want people to know.

Good for her. I like turning another year older. I'm now at the age in my 40s where I'm getting closer to 50.

All right. We have so much to talk about, and here we are on tangents.

I know. Here we go. But before we get into everything, I just wanted to remind our Cocktail Party members that we have a Zoom on Tuesday the 29th at 7:00 PM. If you're listening and you decide to join Cocktail Party between now and Tuesday, just email me to get the invite, because we already sent out the email and put up all of the notices. So I can get you in, but that will be Tuesday at 7:00 PM Eastern. They're all good ones, but I think this one will be a really good one.

RHOC Exclusive: Katie Ginella's Karma Reel, a Possible Pause and Carmela's Split

Okay, so getting into our usual BS, we have some Real Housewives of Orange County exclusive tea. We were seeing people talk about this on Discord. You and I were DM'ing about it. Katie Ginella, who was on Orange County for a season and a half, posted this cryptic reel where she's going around vacuuming and smiling and fluffing the pillows. And you guys will remember, Katie was essentially, the way that she put it, bullied off the show. I think she made a lot of enemies, but what got me is that she really tried to throw Kiki, who we love, under the bus with that whole Gretchen-was-drugged scandal and story. Katie posts a lot in general. Definitely seems a little bit attention-seeking, but she definitely is still out there talking about Orange County. Likes to bash the other women quite a bit.

Wait a minute. So the Kiki part: Kiki's our girl, love her. Finally hung with her in person this summer, and we had a fantastic night. We've always been internet friends, and now we're in real life friends, and she's the best. That's why we caught a stray from Katie, because here I am minding my business, I see the reel. And I don't wanna sound mean, but you guys know this, when a housewife is no longer on the show, I don't really share them unless it's relevant, unless you're Dr. Nicole. I often unfollow, 'cause I don't need to clog my feed with people our audience is no longer interested in hearing about. So I didn't share it. And then a couple of you guys sent me that you wrote in her comments, "Headed to Bravo and Cocktails to see what her cryptic reel was about." And she wrote, "I wouldn't. They're not a reliable source." So I was like, "Excuse me, what did I do to you?" Because I have never spoken negatively about her. As a matter of fact, you and I disagreed a little bit.

We both stood up for her.

Yeah. We stood up for her, and I actually wanted her back on the show, and when Tamra was pushing for it, I was on that side. So I was like, this bitch has some fucking nerve. So what I did was I reached out to my source, 'cause I can't wait, if it comes true, to DM her. You could now post and say that I am reliable. But I guess it's because she doesn't like Kiki, so since we're friends with Kiki, she put us in the bucket.

Oh, that makes sense. 'Cause what I thought was... Amanda and I knew for 100% fact from our sources that Katie was not coming back. When we posted that and said it on the pod, we got an email anonymously saying that she was coming back and everybody wanted her, the fans and all this. And I had to assume it was either from her or from her husband, and I just didn't post it, simply because I knew that it wasn't true because I had already fact-checked it. So it could be that she's mad at us for not posting her nonsense about her coming back, plus we're friends with Kiki.

No lies told there. Honestly, you and I don't really like to get dragged into drama when it comes to this kind of stuff. We like to let the housewives shine, and there's always plenty.

Which is why I know you're proud of me that I bit my tongue and didn't comment back to her on TikTok. Even though I wanted to, I was like, you know what? I would not have seen this, because I don't even follow her anymore. I only know because people sent it to me. So why am I gonna make her relevant?

We invite anyone to go back, even a few years, into the archives on our site and just tell us how much we were wrong. We have been wrong, but to say we're unreliable is not true. Even Scheana Shay, who we haven't always gotten along with, and Tamra and Teddi, they've said not nice things about us too.

Yes, but they also say that we're right a lot. They've gotten mad at some of the stuff we've said about them personally. We did out Teddi's affair.

We broke that story. I think that's why they don't like us. Of course, I've always been a Teddi liker, as you guys know, which I think confuses the heck out of most people. And obviously, health issues followed, and we stopped talking about it. But prior to us knowing about the health issues, we are the ones who broke that she was having an affair, which she ultimately admitted. So you may not have liked what we said, but there weren't any lies told.

Okay, so let me read you guys what our source had to say about this. "Maybe Katie Ginella's cryptic karma reel post wasn't just another one of her attention-seeking posts. Some of the ladies are genuinely concerned there might be a pause, but nothing has been communicated to them. Katie still keeps in touch with at least one of the showrunners. Maybe she knows something the other women don't." And then the source says, "In my opinion, it's either a pause or Emily is fired. That's what Katie would gloat about. But to my knowledge, these decisions haven't been made, and it wouldn't be while the current season is still airing." Which, again, makes sense, 'cause they don't usually start filming until after the holidays.

Do I think that Katie is jumping the gun with this reel? Yes, because obviously she can't confirm anything until at least after the reunion airs. Do I agree with this source, who by the way has told us everything that we know about OC, which is a lot? Yeah, I think the women are worried. There has been a lot of speculation from viewers that people are bored. But the ratings are good. So this is where we get caught up, because a lot of people just watch things out of habit, and so long as enough people watch it out of habit, the show will come back.

And it has been much better. The last three, four episodes have been much better. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume that they're not coming back. Do I think there's a very good possibility of a longer break between filming? Certainly. Emily not coming back, in my opinion...

She's two seasons overdue.

I'm gonna go out there and say I disagree. There's something about her that's just disarming in a good way. She's so honest, and we're seeing what looks like very real tension between her and Shane. She's not afraid to call other people out. I still like her. We know that she lost a little weight, but she's just gotten, in general, a glow up. I don't know if it's her hair, her makeup, her stylist. But I'd still like to see her stay.

I think she's beautiful. I always have thought she was beautiful. But I don't enjoy watching her. Something about her is too aggressive, and I'm an aggressive woman myself, so I can't pinpoint it, but I'm not a fan of watching her as a housewife. But yeah, I do think it's a possibility that Katie is friends with the showrunner, and talk is there may be a pause. This is always the talk. I was speaking with the OC source, who said that when they brought Carmela on, they were seriously interviewing a couple of other women, and they ended up doing the safer thing, which was just bring Carmela. And I think Carmela has been positively received. It's definitely some new energy, which was needed.

Did we read that email we got about Carmela last week? Why don't you look up that email? And I wanted to actually talk about something that the Cocktailers have been talking about on Discord. One of the Cocktailers brought up what I thought was a really good question: "Why is Katie getting so much heat about posting this video gloating and implying that she's happy that someone, or maybe the whole cast, is getting bad news, when people didn't blink an eye at Janet from The Valley doing the same?" I don't think it was a video. I think it was her looking smug going to some sort of event, but it was her referring to Danny and Nia leaving the show.

Everybody hates Janet. But I wanna say that in regards to Janet, I got a lot of flack in my DMs. Maybe people didn't post it publicly, but people were like, "Oh my God, see? This is so Janet." It's almost expected behavior, which I think is expected behavior from Katie too, but people haven't been talking about Katie as recently.

I think the difference is Janet's was more like, "I don't have to film with them," or maybe even, "I won and I kept my place on the show." I think Katie's felt really mean-spirited, 'cause it felt more like Katie is happy because something bad happened to somebody else. There's a word for that, I looked this up: it's called schadenfreude, to take pleasure from other people's misfortune. The intention behind it just felt different.

Okay, but so was Janet's. I don't see them as different. I think they're both schadenfreude.

Also known as Shannon Storms Beador.

You know what? I'm gonna say something. I have been a Katie apologizer even though she did mess with my friend Kiki. I did feel bad for her, because I did feel like she got a raw deal. But now that she came for me, I hate her. I'm only kidding, guys.

Oh my God, that's so funny. Okay, do you wanna read that email?

Yes. So I am liking Carmela. Carmela on Watch What Happens Live confirmed that her and the boyfriend we see her with on TV are officially done, and in comes the email. Subject: "Why they split in the OC." "Regarding the OC housewife who recently split with her boyfriend, it was an ongoing affair. He wanted her to just accept that he had another relationship, like she's done before, many times. Now that she's on TV, she wasn't willing, so they split." That kind of makes me sad for her.

No man is that big of a catch that if you're not getting what you want from a relationship, you should stay, so good for her.

Good for her. And maybe she didn't have a lot going on, and now that she has the show, she has the confidence to leave. 'Cause it's not always about money. Sometimes it's about your own self-worth.

And hopefully she bought all those Dior items on his credit card.

West Wilson's New Netflix Show, Amanda Batula and The Traitors Intel

So guys, the couple that won't go away. Everyone's asking, have Amanda and West split? Cocktailers exclusively knew as of Monday they had been spotted in the city. They had been quiet on socials, and we were wondering why. I was right but wrong show. A Cocktailer said it to me, I'm not gonna take credit, but it made sense: could it be that West is the secret Traitor, since he wasn't posting? So when Deadline posted that West will be on the third season of Netflix's Million Dollar Secret, it made perfect sense. I knew he was somewhere filming something, it just wasn't Traitors. The first two seasons featured civilians, and now Netflix is taking a page out of the Traitors playbook and bringing in a cluster of celebrities, if we wanna call them celebrities. West will be joined by a number of reality stars, comedians, athletes, actors, Olympians, WWE. Funny enough, Brianna Chickenfry was the one who was friends with West, but when everything came out with Amanda, she publicly said their timeline is BS: "He told me at the Super Bowl that him and Amanda were hooking up." And she just came out recently and said that he's lying about the timeline.

I believe her.

I think it was filmed, and she's home. He's home, 'cause he's been spotted by Cocktailers, and I saw DeuxMoi had a spotting as well. Him and Amanda are together, in whatever that looks like, guys. We're not gonna know the minute they break up, and I don't think they're a forever thing. But apparently, I don't follow Brianna closely, but people who do tell me that she's still quiet on socials. And a little research tells you that on this show, when you get voted out, you go home. West is home already, so we think that means he didn't win, since Brianna's still quiet on socials.

Interesting. I've always wondered why they haven't had more comedians on these shows. Chris Redd, who used to be on Saturday Night Live, is going to be on this Netflix show. And we had Ron on Traitors, but he's more the quiet, dry comedian. I love the idea of having comedians. I think it's needed.

Oh, by the way, The Traitors are off filming. Yes, Craig is on it. We knew he was. Cocktailers knew. But a lot of the cast was definitely changed up, and my best Traitors source was like, "B, they really were tight-lipped." And some intel that only Amanda knows: the source also said to me after the fact, the reason that they were so tight-lipped is because they were told, "If your name gets out, you will be replaced. We have a roster. Everybody wants this show."

Which I love. But I am watching the civilian one. Are you? Our Cocktailers wanna hear about it, and it's so good.

I need to watch it with my daughter. We'll get caught up this weekend. We were just getting caught up on Dancing With the Stars, 'cause last week was a crazy schedule. I've only really been watching Sierra. I watch her dance, and then I vote for her.

I think I told you guys how we watch it. This is so bad, but when we're trying to catch up, sometimes we watch them practicing the dance. We always watch the dance. Then we fast-forward, don't listen to what the judges are saying, see the score, and fast-forward, 'cause we're in catch-up mode right now. But I will watch it, and we can talk about it, because it really does look so good.

In the City: Kenny and Whitney's Italy Engagement (and the Pink Flowers)

Oh, before we move on, Kenny and Whitney from In the City got engaged. They were in Italy. There was a whole spread in People magazine. I gotta say, I'm rooting for them. I have a little soft spot for Kenny. I think he's very handsome. Apparently, he secretly flew to Florida to ask her parents for permission to propose. And I think we need to keep an eye on Kenny. I think he might be a little bit of a bridezilla, because also in the article, he said once he got to the place where the proposal was gonna happen, all the flowers were pink, and they were not supposed to be pink. He says, "I almost lost it," but they were able to replace them with white flowers at the last minute.

You're shitting me.

I'm not kidding. You should read the article.

When I tell you I could never marry a man that particular. I'm sure Whitney would've been happy either way, so that was totally a him thing. I'm not messy, but sometimes when I am just busy, an Amazon package sits by the door for a couple days until I have time to get to it.

My husband and I are clean people, okay? My house is always clean. My sheets are clean. My floors are clean. I put everything away, but when you open the cabinet, my daughter calls it the important cabinet. And I'm like, "Why do you call it that?" She's like, "Because everything is there. When you open it, you could get hit in the head."

That's hilarious. So they're in Spain apparently now celebrating with friends, and then hopefully they're gonna come back and film. I don't think cameras are officially up. I would assume that they got some footage of their own, especially if Kenny is this particular about the color of flowers. He definitely hired a videographer. Obviously, it'll be a storyline. I have to say, I wanna give Kenny his flowers, because he let all the ladies on the show, Lexi, Danielle, who had her child early, and Yvonne, have their babies, waited a few weeks, and then did the proposal.

You're right. I never thought of that.

And I have to think it was intentional. I really like him. I don't like how him and Whitney came for Lindsay. I think it was a bad move, because she's established and it was two against one. It made me not like them. But I also feel like they could turn a corner on that. So I'm rooting for them, too. Do I think Whitney's kind of boring? I do, and that's not the worst thing in the whole world.

Kenny's crazy enough. People need a balance. Kenny and Lindsay together would light the world on fire. It'd be too much.

RHONY Season 16: Hailey Glassman on Her Marriage, Daisy's Raya Confession and Jessel vs. Erin

Speaking of boring, Erin was called boring by Hailey on New York. I just have to say, this Hailey Glassman is such a nut. I love it.

I am loving it. You guys, if you didn't watch the last two, three seasons, doesn't matter. It's all new. Pick it up. It's so good. And there's so many new cast members, so you don't have to feel like you have to remember all the history with Jessel, Sai and Erin, who are the only returning people. You can jump right in.

So Hailey did take a shot at Erin, calling her Jan, and really went on about how boring she was. So Erin called her out, but in this episode she went to pickleball with Jessel and she got into the whole thing: she is famous because she was in a relationship with Jon Gosselin. Jon Gosselin was on Kate Plus 8, and her father did Kate's tummy tuck. When they separated it had to stay hush-hush, so for whatever reason, Jon Gosselin moved in with her family. According to Hailey, him and Kate were already separated. People say that's not true. She went into how it was an insane media situation, and she was only 22, and she feels like it changed the course of her life. She goes so far as to say she is with Ruben because her mother encouraged it, she felt safe with him. She says she would not have married her husband, who she's been married to for 10 years or more, if not for that insane situation and being in People magazine as a homewrecker, which she says isn't true. She's open that they have an arrangement. She is not allowed to date other men, but she does date other women. She still has not said if he dates other people, and nobody asks. Can we get to the bottom of that? But can I ask you, Amanda: you have a unique marriage, fine, but on national television you're saying, "I only married him because..."

Honestly, I winced, 'cause I really liked her. And actually, I really understood what she was saying. I know this is now the third week in a row that we have talked about this, but you guys, if you weren't paying attention to media back then, those were the days where paparazzi would chase people. Now it pretty much is appointment only. But they used to chase people down the street. I've seen it in action when I was in LA a long time ago. So I understood, and I was with her until she said that. That feels like a gut punch towards her husband. Regardless of if it's true, is that a kind thing to say? No, it is not.

And it also makes me think that marriage is ending soon. Because even if it's a lavender marriage, it's not sexually romantic, or however we want to say it, it's still a partnership. It's still sacred. You can't compare it to a friend relationship, but it would almost be like me saying, "If I knew how to work a podcast, I never would've gotten into a partnership with Amanda." It's just cruel. Unless the situation's over or ending, to speak that way about someone who has, by her own admission, protected her for her entire adult life, is so messed up and selfish, and it makes me not like her. She's saying he protected her whole adult life, and yet she's throwing him under the bus the first shot she gets on television. Like I said, I really liked her until that.

It's TV. But what about Daisy saying that when she and her husband fight, he looks for an apartment on Craigslist and she goes on Raya? Which by the way, you guys, you have to have a referral or you have to apply to Raya to get on, because it's for celebrities and influencers. It's not just like Match.com where you just put your credit card number in and you're in.

I don't think Raya would've existed before her marriage, right? So she signed up for it since being married. I don't know what to make of this. And again, I'm really loving Daisy. Daisy to me is somebody I could see being friends with in real life. When she went and did the Seder in Brooklyn, a lot of you guys picked up on the picture she showed from '96. She was the same age I was in '96. Get out of here with the 39-year-old stuff. I'm just saying, the woman is anywhere from 42 to 45. And I love her, but it was so Brooklyn. Midwood, Brooklyn: the house looks simple, but that house is worth $2 million, if not more. It's a very expensive area. There's very good schools. Midwood High School's one of the best high schools in New York City that's not specialized, meaning if you live there, you can go there. But anyway, I love you, Daisy, but are you and, is his name Eugene? Are you and Eugene splitting? Because on the other hand, we're critical of Sai because when her marriage was rocky, she made it look good. There's gotta be a happy medium.

I do think it's funny what she said about him looking, 'cause I will tell you, I've talked about this before, but when my marriage wasn't looking great, and it was in that spot for a while, I definitely was looking at other real estate options, honestly. It just seems to me like they have both prioritized their child and their careers, and they have not prioritized each other. And so I hope they get a chance to at least try.

But is that okay if they're both happy with that, or are we asking for more?

They don't seem happy. He doesn't. I feel like she's okay with it for now. She embraces the chaos. He does not embrace it. He seems more structured, more like, "This is our schedule."

But why is it okay for him to work on the weekends till 9:00 or 10:00? Why can't he work around her schedule? Somebody's gotta give, and it just seems like they both wanna do what they wanna do and then complain about each other.

Well, who gets that apartment that's rent-controlled? Rent-controlled in Battery Park City is insane. And when I tell you I wanted to smack Jessel, making fun of her ceilings. First of all, where's Jessel's money coming from? Gotta be a trust fund. That is so obnoxious. New York City is an expensive place to live regardless. Daisy has a very interesting life. I know that there are people who feel like everyone on Housewives should be aspirational. She's Martha Stewart's makeup artist. She's got a fun personality and an interesting life. I don't care if her apartment's smaller than yours, Jessel, because you bore me. I'm bored, and when I'm not bored, I'm annoyed.

I think it's the snobbiness. It just feels like such a low blow. Who would ever do that in real life? Sitting in somebody's apartment and giving them a hard time about it.

I didn't appreciate Erika's comment either. "I have popcorn in my hair." You're a billionaire. Shut up. That even makes it worse, that she's a billionaire and said that. I was loving Erika until that point. I am not loving Jessel.

What about Jessel's rehearsed lines? Did she get them from ChatGPT? "Loot like Houdini," "one-woman Ponzi scheme," which doesn't even make sense. Jessel also comes across as not that smart. Just 'cause you have the accent doesn't mean you have the IQ.

I don't understand what she was even trying to imply. If you guys have ever known anybody who has had a flood: one of my good friends, they have an upstairs laundry room, and her husband was soaking some stuff in the big laundry sink and forgot that he turned on the water. They left to go to a soccer game, came back, and the damages were in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I'm sitting here like, they had a whole pipe burst and they didn't know about it at first. I don't like the implication of insurance fraud.

I didn't like the Katrina comment, and she shouldn't have repeated what the architect said, but Jessel making it insurance fraud is mean. She really wants to get her.

We have a Cocktailer who commented on that Katrina comment, and she's like, "I am one of the people who lost my home in Katrina, and I did not take any offense to that." Erin has clarified that she was just repeating what her architect said.

It was thoughtless. But if you have a housewife who censors everything they say so they don't offend people, then you're not gonna have an interesting housewife. So you have to take some things with a grain of salt. On a much smaller level, I know that we've said things that have offended people. And when people don't like you, you can't do anything right. We try our best, as I'm sure the Housewives do when they're on TV.

Jessel is on my bad side this season as well. Hopefully she redeems herself, 'cause I always thought she was snobby, but I also thought she was funny and quirky, and now I'm just thinking snobby and bitchy.

She was a little airhead-y, but in a lovable way. Also, we haven't seen Pavit. I think Pavit softens her. It makes her more likable.

RHOSLC: Newcomer Ashley Quai, Whitney and Justin's Separation, and Bronwyn's Model Boyfriend

Let's talk about Salt Lake City. We have the newcomer, Quai. Am I saying that right? She apparently loves her husband's nipples. Good for her. People should have their kinks. That's just not one I've heard about. I need to do some research: we need to figure out what they do for a living, 'cause this house that they're building in the mountains is gorgeous.

Absolutely gorgeous. We may have a post somewhere, because I feel like I knew what he does. I'll find the post and repost it. She is the sister-in-law of Whitney's very good friend. If you guys remember, a couple seasons ago, Whitney's very good friend, I wanna say Sherry, passed. She seems like a character so far. I'm into it. I love Salt Lake City, but you always need a little new infusion. You can see that they're using her to bring peace between Whitney and Meredith and Lisa, because she's a common friend, or she's being presented that way. Seems like she has the most history with Whitney and then Lisa. Meredith was quick to point out that Whitney has a drinking problem, and it's very clear she's not interested in moving forward with Whitney, and I'm not really sure I blame her.

The thing that bothers me is sometimes we know too much as Cocktailers, right? We know that they filmed the Ultimate Girls Trip in January, and then they started filming Real Housewives of Salt Lake City in late February, and then stopped because of the untimely passing of Robert Cosby Jr. That's not that much time, and Whitney now has come in completely contrite, when we saw her with Bronwyn at Kyle's White Party on the Ultimate Girls Trip just a month earlier saying, "She's terrible. Lisa's awful," going off. And now all of a sudden she's so contrite.

It feels like production told her, "Your drinking's out of hand, and we can't have you being so negative to them." Because Whitney is coming in with her tail between her legs and kissing everybody's ass.

Exactly. I have to say really quick, I woke up this morning with Miley Cyrus's The Climb in my head, 'cause of Lisa. She's like, "Ain't no mountain high enough." I'm like, "Oh, honey, wrong era, wrong song, wrong everything." But I did get a giggle out of that. Do you think Whitney and Justin are actually in trouble, or that this is a storyline?

Here's the thing. I don't understand. Like she said in an interview, they're still working together. They're still living together. They still deeply love each other. They're good on so many levels, but they're separated. I just can't relate. I don't know how you figure out what you want, which is what she says she's trying to figure out, when the only change you make is that you sleep in another bedroom. I understand the financial aspect of it, but you can still live together and do things separately: I'm gonna do the sports this weekend, you go do your own thing. They're still doing everything as a family unit. They're still eating dinner as a family unit, still going out to dinner as a family unit, which we know because we know their neighbors. Thank you, Cocktailers. I don't think it's a real split.

So she said they're doing the nesting thing, which means that the kids stay in the family home and the parents take turns.

No, but she's not getting another apartment. She said she's going to the guest bedroom. And then he's like, "So we're still gonna do everything together?" She's like, "Yes, of course." I get the nesting thing. And I even understand if it's not feasible to afford two residences. But you can separate your days. Saturdays you do their soccer, and I'm gonna go get my nails done. Just like any other couple who's no longer living together would split up custody.

I will say I can definitely relate. They do seem like they're on the fence, saying that they're good in some ways but not in others, and we've seen that over the last couple of years. Getting divorced is such a big decision, and good parents have their kids first and foremost in their mind. It's gonna take them some time to figure out, and you really don't wanna make that decision lightly. It does seem a little bit unconventional to me, but I can also understand trying to do this in baby steps.

So Bronwyn, her boyfriend, Brandon: tall, handsome, young. Watching that little collection of scenes, he gives her attention. He picks her up. He makes her feel cute. He makes her laugh. He prioritizes her. Those are all things that she was craving with Todd. I get it. Sometimes Stella has to get her groove back, and I think that's what she's doing. And I thought she was really quick to say, "He's not staying in the house that Todd built. We got him a hotel. I'm sneaking back and forth." She says she feels bad for Todd. I really do feel for Bronwyn, 'cause I think she was just straight-up neglected by her husband for a long time.

Agreed on all of those points, and I like Bronwyn, and I'm happy for her. Perfect rebound, young, hot boyfriend. Here's what's annoying me. You can't attend the Super Bowl as a public person with a model boyfriend and be all huggy and kissy, and Sundance, and then make it seem like something was leaked and it's gonna get out. You're Jennifer Lopez or Meghan Markle. Girl, you wanted this out, and that's okay. Good for you. Parade him around. I have no issue with her parading him around, particularly because we saw Todd. Our Cocktailers were there when he was parading around some young girl in New York City a week after they were announced as split. The part that I agree with, and I hate to agree with Heather and Whitney, is that her making this out to be that she had to get it out 'cause it was gonna get leaked is ridiculous.

Yeah, I think she had to act like she was trying to hide it out of respect for Todd or the impending divorce, but she was not trying to hide it.

RHOSLC Exclusive Emails: An OG's "Paid" Boyfriend and a Blonde OG Furious Over Traitors

I completely agree. What about Tripp, Heather's boyfriend? The email says: "This OG debuted her 'new' boyfriend. She is acting as if they're giving it another go, but he's a paid employee. She needed a storyline that included a relationship, as she's never been in one on the show. She's trying to sell it as the real deal to her cast too, but they don't buy it, and neither should the viewers."

Here's the thing. I'm not the biggest Heather fan, however, I would like to see her in a relationship and in love. Watching her all these seasons, it seems like something she really wants. She didn't have a happy marriage, so I want that for her. With that said, she said he used to be her handyman at her salon. They had dated and he was always cheating on her. So do I think there's a chance that he's back in the picture because now she's wealthy and on television? Yes. It could be a relationship that benefits him, or it could legit be her being like, "Listen, this is my seventh season, I haven't seriously dated anybody, I need to have a relationship on the show. Here's 1,000 bucks a week and you're my boyfriend."

I don't know. I think she seems too giddy around him to be faking it. She would be a hell of an actress if she is. You guys know I love Heather. I hope for her sake it's real. She is on my Mount Rushmore of Housewives.

Heather Gay? Why?

'Cause I have always liked her. I think she's so funny. I know she had a bad second season. I just enjoy her. She is the campiness of Salt Lake City.

Hard disagree. I don't hate her, she just irks me. She would definitely not be on my Mount Rushmore.

Would any of the Salt Lake City housewives be on your Mount Rushmore?

Mary freaking Cosby. 100%. And after Mary, my next favorite is Bronwyn. I think she's a good housewife. Like that little snark she threw at Quai, 'cause she was like, "Quai, but why are you wearing that?" Meanwhile, I know her stuff is designer, but half of it is pretty horrendous looking as well, so I thought that was funny. I don't want Heather off the show, but I definitely don't think she's Mount Rushmore. She's somewhere in the middle for me.

I don't think it's a fake thing. Let's hope he's here for the right reasons, is more my concern about that situation.

I just don't think he is. 'Cause where's he been since they were dating six years ago? And take her out in a car, my goodness. We're in Salt Lake City, where there's a lot of snow. Motorcycles are not safe.

B, maybe he doesn't own a car. She's on my Mount Rushmore. Don't hurt her. We are straight disagreeing this pod, which is good, because people say we just always agree.

Oh yeah, that I just always go along with what B says. Okay, so by the way, we have this piece of tea about somebody. You might be able to guess who. Subject: "She is so pissed." "The blonde OG is absolutely furious that her castmate was chosen over her for Traitors. First, Lisa Barlow got the main spot on Girls Trip, and then Bronwyn, who's not even an OG," her exact words, "got picked for Traitors. She is furious."

Yeah, I believe it. Somebody pointed out that Heather was on a girls trip, okay, but she wasn't on the 20th anniversary girls trip. Almost all of the women were on girls trips. Teresa was. So yeah, Heather's pissed, 'cause apparently she thinks she's Mount Rushmore. I think Barlow's more Mount Rushmore. Barlow annoys me too, but she's annoying but iconic. I'd put her in the Teresa bucket in that regard.

Yeah, I would too. But my Mount Rushmore is my Mount Rushmore. I can put whoever I want.

Is Emily on it too?

You're gonna die. LeeAnne Locken would be on there, I think, from Dallas.

God, somebody save me. I would put LeeAnne on it before I put Heather on it. Because she was a carny. That's cool.

Next Gen NYC Reunion: Is Charlie Casting a Spell on B?

Wait, I have to say, 'cause we're probably not gonna get to Next Gen. When Charlie says to Georgia at the reunion, "Some advice from the clown"... I'm obsessed with him, and I loved watching the reunion, because what I loved is that Ava actually is into him. I thought they made out and she'd moved on, 'cause she's been hanging out with all these more prominent people. But no, she's like, "Be more direct. Call me up. Ask me out. Stop being so flighty. I know you like me, but you gotta nail me down, dude." Loving it. I love him, and I don't care. Charlie is a self-loathing, toxic person, but he's so smart.

He is very smart.

Smart is really sexy.

You know the thing that I don't like about him, though? I think he has a very cruel streak. And I'm using the word cruel on purpose, because I think he does try to hurt people on purpose.

I agree with you, but I also think that he is very self-loathing. It's so true, all of the corny quotes, like when people treat you poorly, it's just a projection. I really believe that with him. But he's also very interesting because it doesn't feel phony. As an example, they're all going at it, and Brooks goes at him, and he goes back at Brooks. He's nasty about Seth and everything. And then Andy says, "Charlie, what do you think of Brooks' clothing line?" And whether Charlie authentically feels this way or uses it as a manipulation, he very genuinely goes, "Oh, Brooks' clothing line is fire. The jeans from two seasons ago, I wear them all the time still."

And that's what he does to people. I'm 20 years older than these people, maybe not quite, 'cause I think Charlie's 30. But I have a hard time even distinguishing if it's authentic. So now you've softened Brooks. You watched him soften Ariana just in a couple of moments. And that was so messed up how he was still mic'd and then whispered to Ava. If you guys didn't watch it, we all saw it in the final scene of Next Gen.

So Andy had been asking him, "Why are you going so hard after Ariana? It feels like there's something you guys aren't talking about." And Ariana says, "Yes, there were some things that were said that were not kind." And then Charlie's like, "You're pushing me towards saying what you actually said," implying that Ariana had said that she loved him, and that he wasn't into it, and that's why things ended.

So I think that she probably, when she was drunk, was coming on very strong with him, or how Liam was to her. And the thing with a guy who doesn't like himself, which we see with Charlie, is that the second somebody loves him, he no longer respects them, because he doesn't love himself. But she definitely does have a very strong attraction to him, because at the end of the day, she chose him over Liam, and now she's going back to Liam, 'cause you've got Hudson, who she was already moving past. The poor guy is a drug addict, which we didn't, quote-unquote, know, but that makes sense. And that whole thing with Charlie was crazy. He's captivating. And he softened Ariana. They're definitely gonna be hooking up again third season. Wait for it.

Oh, God, I hope not. But I just have to close that loop really quick, because he and Ava are whispering while they're still mic'd up, and he says what she actually said. What Ariana actually said was, "You make my vagina tingly." Okay. So what? Who cares? That's not "I love you."

When he said that, I actually thought to myself, and I understand it's easy to say as a spectator, but if I'm Ariana, everybody already knows that we hooked up. I would rather my cast and the audience know that I was just telling him I was aroused than have them think that I'm madly in love with him. But she also says, "I was blackout drunk. Who knows what I was saying?"

I'm just like, okay, Charlie, why are we implying this? But obviously Charlie's reaction was to end it with her when he saw how into him she was. He got her where he wanted her, and then he was like, "All right, we're done here." Once they did that, he conquered. But now that she's saying, "I'm totally done with him. I'll never do it again," he's back to needing to get her back. Don't you also think that him and Georgia have hooked up?

Oh, that would actually make a little bit of sense.

A lot of sense. First of all, she was on his couch for three weeks. You don't think he's trying to hook up?

That's a good point. And maybe that is partly where all the tension between them comes from, and why he keeps saying, "Stop being so obsessed with me," and "I gave you this life."

"I gave you this life, and you were supposed to be loyal to me." Wacko. We love you guys. Till next time. See you at the Zoom Tuesday.

Yay. Can't wait. Bye.

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